xc2xbe dead wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:52 am
I've never heard of Richard Long.
He is a land artist, Sam Mckinlay name checks
Obviously I had major influence from artists like Ad Reinhardt, Richard Serra, Barnett Newman, Ellsworth Kelly, Richard Long, George Trakas, Kasimir Malevich, etc
And Obviously Merzbow has also fine art influences.
So it seems at least some of the progenitors of Noise are fairly locked into modernist culture... that's what interests me, that subsequent people in noise have regained its musicality, requirement for skill, expression and technique is an understandable reactionary move.
xc2xbe dead wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:52 am
As for consequences, they've already been executed. People find their niches. Some excel at making beautiful music and keeping grand traditions alive, though it often boils down to a more dignified/devoted form of pretentious "hipsterism" and steampunk wankery in the end. Fine and good, for what it is (hasn't it been that way throughout the ages?).
Throughout the ages no. More recently, no. The modernist tropes of progress, development, innovation have been replaced by "retro". Hence the return to " musicality, requirement for skill, expression and technique" but like retro, it's fake.
xc2xbe dead wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:52 am
At least they're elevating things a little, which is nice. The hairstyles may have changed. Maybe in the future, conductor's wands will have little laser pointers built into them. But it's essentially the same. Classical forms have not and
are not going anywhere. They're just older now. They're the old ladies that lived in this quiet, gentile suburban neighborhood before it turned into a crowded, noisy, dirty, confusing, ghettoized shithole. You hardly see them because they only go out on Sundays. They're out of touch (understandably) with their surroundings.
Certainly in the UK a new trend is gentrification, of those ' noisy, dirty, confusing, ghettoized shitholes' evidently especially in London, but in the large cities. Brixton is a cool place to live, Pekham evidently is the place to be at night when the cheap cafes turn into restaurants for the Hipsters. Bermondsey, where some of my family once lived, working on the docks, now sports the White Cube gallery and fine dining.
But we seem well off topic. And I add that given the influences behind HNW, the minimalist critique I posted is I think relevant.
The term xe2x80x9cMinimalismxe2x80x9d was coined by the art writer, Richard Wollheim, Minimalism rejected the concept of the artist as an actor, as a specific personality with a signature touch. Minimalism was a rejection of Modernist aesthetics, stripping the object of any points of reference or meaning or physical attractiveness.
And I guess this is very much against the grain of the more xe2x80x9cperformativexe2x80x9d noise Artists, and their Art.
xc2xbe dead wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:52 am
I think we both recognize that's the consequence of Socialism, for better or for worse (I'm not making any arguments for or against, it's merely an observation. People can make of it what they like because
I'm not interested in
that).
Where?
xc2xbe dead wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:52 am
...actually i'm not that much interested. I'm no sociologist.
The myths of "US" and "Them" prevail. Maybe a helpful survival tool.
These two lines of thinking don't gel. At any rate, yes. It's a pretty easy conclusion to reach from an uncomplicated, naturalistic point of view (lions vs. antelopes). Naturalistic cognition hasn't left us, society has simply altered the landscape and twisted the methodology of nature as we understand it via the convenient "us and them" analogy of wilderness versus civilization.
There's certainly a palpable "me and them" dichotomy between you and the rest of us here,
Only very superficial. The so called 'rest' are as far as I can see lacking in any coherence once you scratch the surface. My or any scratching maybe heightens the panic. One of the still trotted out clichxc3xa9 is of individual creativity, its often here, and then there is the dichotomy between that and the xe2x80x9crest of usxe2x80x9d a motley crew. Is the neo Nazism of Warlock, or the Mysticism of cultofthesunmachine or anti fascism of noise bob in anyway a xe2x80x9crest of usxe2x80x9d, I don't think so. And others who I wont mention as they would be very upset, I see no xe2x80x9crest of Usxe2x80x9d. Maybe an illusion of camaraderie? More a band of Orcs than brothers
.
xc2xbe dead wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:52 am
which is what I'm always reflecting back when I do try to talk with you. My understanding of it is that there's always going to be people with resources (including intellect, experience, etc.) who abuse them for both extreme and extremely petty reasons.
Hardly on topic, and if directed at me mistaken. I was replying to a question, how long HNW. My reply xe2x80x93 length is irrelevant, and I gave reasons. If you think different fine. But, HNW xe2x80x93 one of its instigators cites Minimalist artists, and here the reductive process does I think critique temporality. As temporality seems essential to music.
Bricks (Anywhere from a few seconds to just a few minutes, usually not more than 5)
Partitions (Anything that's approx. 10-20 minutes)
Walls (Averaging 30 minutes or more.
Seems to me a reactionary move.
xc2xbe dead wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:52 am
Things are not meant to be universally understood, particularly when we don't even speak the same language, and are unwilling to learn a new language. At any rate, I'm not someone who'd assert that meaning is universal, but that universality is in fact an absurd construct itself that isn't worth pondering, like gender. Or time. Or equality. (full disclosure: I don't see gender as a construct) That is part of the wackiness and fun of being self-aware, and aware of others, including others we hurt. Again, I don't understand what you're getting out of this.
I'm discussing HNW. Or trying to. What are you doing, getting out of it. I do see HNW as a limit, and recognise the reactionary ploy, but putting bells and whistles on it, bricks cement and then painting a mural on the wall, is IMO reactionary and once the mural pictures the tortured soul, or workers victories its back to the future. Understandable, but lets be honest if we can. HNW are easy and boring and not self expressive, so if you want excitement and self expression, get out the bells and whistles and the paint. Fine by me.
