HNW question

[RUBBISH]

I'm not always a nice person and this topic is just going in circles.

But seriously have your fun.
Me being a dick shouldn't stop you.
i hope it doesnt.

[NoiseWiki]

Duchamp or Cage created nothing material or auditory, and though Vomir created something auditory, it sound was irrelevant.
"No point".

The urinal did not will itself into being. Also Duchamp authorised replicas of Fountain in 1950 and 1963. No Point is the point ergo the meaning.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

If meaning is a construct of humans that includes you I guess.

Whilst you seem to have said human made anything has meaning,

Yes.. humans purposely do things and when they do things to represent an idea then there is meaning IE.. I made this nth long recording of noise to represent meaninglessness. Since Vomir cannot actually create an infinite recording with no start or stop he settles for a maximum duration to represent infinity.

and implied other thing too, red roses e.g. my question about everything having means remain unanswered. Though if you think red roses have a meaning I cant see why they should and cucumbers and Jupiter do not also have a meaning for you.

When humans manufacture or otherwise present a tangible thing as a representation of another thing then that representation has meaning. A HNW release is a thing that is presented as representing "meaninglessness" which is a concept. It doesn't really matter what the thing is.. maybe it's a toilet but in this case it's static recorded on an audio medium. Just as much as me saying the word "dog" is not an actual dog.. Vomir saying here is this CD with an hour of static on it not actual "meaninglessness".

Yes it is - top of page 16! And sure - does anything create itself?

Oh yeah.. right you can't have a product without an action.. uh.. so like I said Vomir creates an HNW release to represent "meaninglessness" .. he does it on purpose with a reason and a meaning with is to represent a concept.

I very much doubt I create the sun I see outside and the trees... what difference does a meaningful or meaningless universe make, to many humans lots.

No or it least it doesn't seem plausible.. but people clearly can think about things in vastly different ways than one another especially about things that tend to be subjective like art despite the possibility of it all being meaningless or at the very least minuscule in comparison to the expanse of the universe.

Didn't say that. Entertainers mean to entertain. And once entertained, job done. And its a matter of taste.

Well like I said I have reason to believe Vomir is a prankster

What does it mean? What does it represent?

They are a representation of the artist's concept of "not representing anything".

You are right to see the possible terminus of the minimal work of art, such as HNW, as a conclusion that "there would be nothing to explain" your quote.

Here in HNW, and the bricks, is materiality that can if not be 'explained', can be discussed... "Bricks (Anywhere from a few seconds to just a few minutes, usually not more than 5)
Partitions (Anything that's approx. 10-20 minutes)
Walls (Averaging 30 minutes or more. "

Because the artist uses similar materials each time he creates a work then it becomes possible to identify his representations of the concept of not representing anything. I mean the bricks are even composed.

The artist is still leaving traces of himself in the work.. perhaps the only true way to be nothing is to never have existed.

"HNW with a tremolo: Harsh noise fence."

So we can talk about the bricks, size, cost.., the HNW sound, pitch, volume length... the glaze on the urinal, the make of piano. But unfortunately all this is, fairly obviously, irrelevant to these works.

Sure but as I say above these are all choices that the artist made for a reason. Vomir chose a name and at trash bag and a sound to represent the concept of "No Point".

Yet despite there not being any point there are many people doing it , selling and buying it. You know what they say one man's trash is another man's gold.

So then what are we left with, is there "nothing to explain".

Well here i happen to think you are right. (bet that shocked you - and yes the guys at CERN wasting their time.)

In mainstream media the Higgs boson has often been called the "God particle", from a 1993 book on the topic,[10] although the nickname is strongly disliked by many physicists, including Higgs himself, who regard it as sensationalism

[JLIAT]

I'm not always a nice person and this topic is just going in circles.

Nietzsche's "Eternal Return of the Same" The most gruesome of ideas...

But seriously have your fun.
Me being a dick shouldn't stop you.
i hope it doesnt.

'Id a fool persists in his folly he shall become wise'. W. Blake... (my moto)

[RUBBISH]

In praise of folly...as a born joker and clown(a fool) I find joy and maybe..hopefully enlightenment from my pursuit of folly.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/30201/3 ... 0201-h.htm

[JLIAT]

Duchamp or Cage created nothing material or auditory, and though Vomir created something auditory, it sound was irrelevant.
"No point".

The urinal did not will itself into being. Also Duchamp authorised replicas of Fountain in 1950 and 1963. No Point is the point ergo the meaning.

The point of its creation that it should be meaningless. Sure.

As for the urinal, its manufacture was irrelevant to the art. More so as it was never exhibited. The replicas were hand crated copies from the photo of the now lost mass produced original, further showing to materiality was not important.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

If meaning is a construct of humans that includes you I guess.

Must. But i've no idea what I mean. Do you? What is your meaning. I happen to think there is none as far as i'm concerned. Again then HNW rasises a fundemental existentialist question.

Whilst you seem to have said human made anything has meaning,

Yes.. humans purposely do things and when they do things to represent an idea then there is meaning IE.. I made this nth long recording of noise to represent meaninglessness. Since Vomir cannot actually create an infinite recording with no start or stop he settles for a maximum duration to represent infinity.

But he doesn't.

and implied other thing too, red roses e.g. my question about everything having means remain unanswered. Though if you think red roses have a meaning I cant see why they should and cucumbers and Jupiter do not also have a meaning for you.

When humans manufacture or otherwise present a tangible thing as a representation of another thing then that representation has meaning.

Fine xe2x80x93 but the thing itself need not, artistically, I,e. The urinal, or HNW. Or when humans make other humans! Or cups of tea.

A HNW release is a thing that is presented as representing "meaninglessness" which is a concept. It doesn't really matter what the thing is.. maybe it's toilet but in's just the words in this case it's static recorded on an audio medium. Just as much as me saying the word "dog" is not an actual dog.. Vomir saying here is this CD with an hour of static on it not actual "meaninglessness".

No xe2x80x93 the static cannot have, convey meaning in itself, it's nature, that it cannot hold meaning can be so used.

Yes it is - top of page 16! And sure - does anything create itself?

Oh yeah.. right you can't have a product without an action.. uh.. so like I said Vomir creates an HNW release to represent "meaninglessness" .. he does it on purpose with a reason and a meaning with is to represent a concept.

Sure. Or in other cases nothing is presented. The famous closed gallery- not Vomir though. The object is irrelevant. As art. Ergo the term conceptual art.

I very much doubt I create the sun I see outside and the trees... what difference does a meaningful or meaningless universe make, to many humans lots.

No or it least it doesn't seem plausible.. but people clearly can think about things in vastly different ways than one another especially about things that tend to be subjective like art despite the possibility of it all being meaningless or at the very least minuscule in comparison to the expanse of the universe.

Art was rarely subjective. There seems a collective appreciation of 'great works' in modernity.

Didn't say that. Entertainers mean to entertain. And once entertained, job done. And its a matter of taste.

Well like I said I have reason to believe Vomir is a prankster

Fine. Evidence?

What does it mean? What does it represent?

They are a representation of the artist's concept of "not representing anything".

Their placing, nothing inherent in the structure of the brinks to represent that.

You are right to see the possible terminus of the minimal work of art, such as HNW, as a conclusion that "there would be nothing to explain" your quote.

Here in HNW, and the bricks, is materiality that can if not be 'explained', can be discussed... "Bricks (Anywhere from a few seconds to just a few minutes, usually not more than 5)
Partitions (Anything that's approx. 10-20 minutes)
Walls (Averaging 30 minutes or more. "

Because the artist uses similar materials each time he creates a work then it becomes possible to identify his representations of the concept of not representing anything. I mean the bricks are even composed.

The artist is still leaving traces of himself in the work.. perhaps the only true way to be nothing is to never have existed.

I see no traces of Vomir in his work. I made a mistake in a review of 3 HNWers, assuming all 3 works were his.

"HNW with a tremolo: Harsh noise fence."

So we can talk about the bricks, size, cost.., the HNW sound, pitch, volume length... the glaze on the urinal, the make of piano. But unfortunately all this is, fairly obviously, irrelevant to these works.

Sure but as I say above these are all choices that the artist made for a reason. Vomir chose a name and at trash bag and a sound to represent the concept of "No Point".

Yet despite there not being any point there are many people doing it , selling and buying it. You know what they say one man's trash is another man's gold.

So then what are we left with, is there "nothing to explain".

Well here i happen to think you are right. (bet that shocked you - and yes the guys at CERN wasting their time.)

In mainstream media the Higgs boson has often been called the "God particle", from a 1993 book on the topic,[10] although the nickname is strongly disliked by many physicists, including Higgs himself, who regard it as sensationalism

But if you look at the actual science, I simply cant follow the maths. Or the logic.

[NoiseWiki]

As for the urinal, its manufacture was irrelevant to the art.

Sure because it was repurposed to represent a concept. All the same a human had to decide to do that.

Must. But i've no idea what I mean. Do you? What is your meaning. I happen to think there is none as far as i'm concerned. Again then HNW rasises a fundemental existentialist question.

Hyperbole

But he doesn't.

Well he can't make an infinite track with no start or stop. My interpretation is that he would if he could but he can't. Please quote where he clarifies this issue specifically rather than your interpretation of "No Point"...

Fine xe2x80x93 but the thing itself need not, artistically, I,e. The urinal, or HNW. Or when humans make other humans! Or cups of tea.

Sure but this also means that HNW does have a unique quality that you seem to claim it has.. noise in itself is as meaningless as anything else.

A HNW release is a thing that is presented as representing "meaninglessness" which is a concept. It doesn't really matter what the thing is.. maybe it's toilet but in's just the words in this case it's static recorded on an audio medium. Just as much as me saying the word "dog" is not an actual dog.. Vomir saying here is this CD with an hour of static on it not actual "meaninglessness".

No xe2x80x93 the static cannot have, convey meaning in itself, it's nature, that it cannot hold meaning can be so used.

Nor is a dog meaningful.. just as you agree above. But painting of dog can convey hairy animal or a recording of HNW can convey meaninglessness.

Art was rarely subjective. There seems a collective appreciation of 'great works' in modernity.

Yet different cultures at different points of time did have different standards for beauty.

Fine. Evidence?

A post some one made awhile back.. maybe on tronics..

Also.. look at this picture.. I close my case..

Viewed 1859 times

Their placing, nothing inherent in the structure of the brinks to represent that.

The artist builds a body of work that becomes recognizable and creates a language. Of this pile or neatly organized bricks is a representation of nothing.

If he had only done it once and never made a statement about it then it'd be harder to ascribe anything to it.

I see no traces of Vomir in his work. I made a mistake in a review of 3 HNWers, assuming all 3 works were his.

Yet you still knew they were HNWers. But I doubt there's huge problem with Vomir forgeries. He has made a name for himself.

But if you look at the actual science, I simply cant follow the maths. Or the logic.

I haven't but I don't assume it means they are actually looking for god.

[JLIAT]

As for the urinal, its manufacture was irrelevant to the art.

Sure because it was repurposed to represent a concept. All the same a human had to decide to do that.

The form was arbitary. i.e. the message was not in the form, just as there is no message, for non is possible, in the form of HNW

Must. But i've no idea what I mean. Do you? What is your meaning. I happen to think there is none as far as i'm concerned. Again then HNW rasises a fundemental existentialist question.

Hyperbole

Well if you think so why take part in this exchange, we've discussed meaning, sense, communication regarding HNW for many many pages and only now you raise this criticism. And the question of things not created by humans you've more or less tacitly agreed your position is that everything has meaning. Which certainly is if not Hyperbole, a massive idea, which originated in the problems of meaning re HNW.

But he doesn't.

Well he can't make an infinite track with no start or stop. My interpretation is that he would if he could but he can't. Please quote where he clarifies this issue specifically rather than your interpretation of "No Point"...

Please point out where he claims to want to make infinite pieces. (not that makes any difference to the non-meaning!) Surely then he could just simply release endless locked groove LPs. Not an LP with one side 45 rpm the other 33 1/3. As for no point, my interpretation? Have you another?

Fine xe2x80x93 but the thing itself need not, artistically, I,e. The urinal, or HNW. Or when humans make other humans! Or cups of tea.

Sure but this also means that HNW does have a unique quality that you seem to claim it has.. noise in itself is as meaningless as anything else.

A signifier by virtue of its play of differences can signify a signified, it can contain meaning, and produce communication, a wall of noise has not the ability to do this. That is the difference. And HNW is not unique in this. Most objects in the real world are also without meaning. Though you tacitly disagree.

Nor is a dog meaningful.. just as you agree above. But painting of dog can convey hairy animal or a recording of HNW can convey meaninglessness.

You previously said a real red rose has meaning, now you are saying a dog has none. The dog and the noise are the same, in themselves meaningless. The whole point of minimal abstract art was to demonstrate the things independent thingness, it represents nothing other, it simply is. The HNW simply is. We may then go onto to differentiate between art where the thing is a signifier, and art where it is not. In the latter we may then discuss that idea, like we have here. But such is not in the HNW, or as far as I can see anything Vomir has said. The idea of its presentation representing this concept was yours not Vomir's.

Also.. look at this picture.. I close my case..

Well he is in the picture not performing HNW, but xe2x80x9cAcoustic & electric shit folkxe2x80x9d But by all means close your case.

I see no traces of Vomir in his work. I made a mistake in a review of 3 HNWers, assuming all 3 works were his.

Yet you still knew they were HNWers. But I doubt there's huge problem with Vomir forgeries.

Precisely, no trace of Vomir. xe2x80x9cThe artist is still leaving traces of himself in the work.. xe2x80x9c
Nope, not with HNW, its empty of meaning and so empty of trace.

But if you look at the actual science, I simply cant follow the maths. Or the logic.

I haven't but I don't assume it means they are actually looking for god.

They are not, they said so, i'm inclined to believe them. But the world of QM is not one I can possibly comprehend.

[NoiseWiki]

The form was arbitary

Yet when I see that urinal or one that looks like it I think about its meaning.

Well if you think so why take part in this exchange,

I dunno.. I do quite literally have more important things to do.. currently waiting for a coffee. This is not say that I think the conversation is pointless

You seem to have a bigger need to establish yourself as being an authority on the subject



>Please point out where he claims to want to make infinite pieces. (not that makes any difference to the non-meaning!) Surely then he could just simply release endless locked groove LPs. Not an LP with one side 45 rpm the other 33 1/3. As for no point, my interpretation? Have you another?

You have your interpretation and I have mine.. that's how that works

> a wall of noise has not the ability to do this. That is the difference. And HNW is not unique in this. Most objects in the real world are also without meaning. Though you tacitly disagree.

No I've said repeatedly that we are probably meaningless if not insignificant to the vastness of the universe.

You said as much that the object can be arbitrary and whatever the artist says goes. I think silence better conveys the concept of meaningless but due to repetition and discussion noise walls have come to convey meaninglessness

>The whole point of minimal abstract art was to demonstrate the things independent thingness, it represents nothing other, it simply is.

Then vomir should have said noise is noise and left it at that


>Well he is in the picture not performing HNW, but xe2x80x9cAcoustic & electric shit folkxe2x80x9d But by all means close your case.


The bag hides the smirk of the prankster


>Precisely, no trace of Vomir. xe2x80x9cThe artist is still leaving traces of himself in the work.. xe2x80x9c
Nope, not with HNW, its empty of meaning and so empty of trace.

Yet he's made such a mark you assumed they were all his and not somebody else's.. anybody else is just copying

>But the world of QM is not one I can possibly comprehend.

I can see why

[crochambeau]

It's funny to try to confine an activity done by many into a single definition.

Also...

Viewed 1845 times

[¾ dead]

But we seem well off topic [...] I was replying to a question, how long HNW.

We were well off that topic by the time you made the first post that I quoted, but okay.

PS: Orcs are cool.