Mixing Feedback Loops and Instruments

[The Mysterious Creep]

I've been pondering buying a mixer for a long while and have been wondering about using one to combine instrument outputs with feedback loops, such that the instruments are essentially being modulated through the feedback loop. I thought it would be interesting way to mess with contact mic'd percussion and guitars. Does this actually function as I'm imagining it or does the feedback loop part of the chain just end up consuming everything?

[¾ dead]

Using a mixer's aux send/return for feedback and then feeding an external source into one of the channel strips on the same mixer can definitely cause some sort of audible inter-modulation (forgive my dubious, cobbled-together-best-guesses vocabulary), though the levels for each signal will probably need to be amplified/attenuated properly for interesting results.

In my experience, however it's accomplished, injecting an external source into a feedback loop, such that it becomes a part of the feedback signal that is essentially processing its own sound in combination with the feedback, yields somewhat predictable results of a boring, relatively unmolested mixture of each signal, depending on how much "activity" there is inside the actual feedback loop, perhaps with some irregular phasing. That, or octave-doubling/"grumbling" effects added to the instrument and/or subtly clangorous modulation. The purer/more consistent the tones, the more apparent the later tends to be. Of course, a lot of these subtleties get smothered in all of the distortion and hiss inherent in the bog-standard Harsh Noise rig consisting predominantly of line level effects. I guess a lot of the outcome depends on the user, though. I'm sort of projecting my own lack of inventiveness here.

[The Mysterious Creep]

In my experience, however it's accomplished, injecting an external source into a feedback loop, such that it becomes a part of the feedback signal that is essentially processing its own sound in combination with the feedback, yields somewhat predictable results of a boring, relatively unmolested mixture of each signal, depending on how much "activity" there is inside the actual feedback loop, perhaps with some irregular phasing. That, or octave-doubling/"grumbling" effects added to the instrument and/or subtly clangorous modulation. The purer/more consistent the tones, the more apparent the later tends to be. Of course, a lot of these subtleties get smothered in all of the distortion and hiss inherent in the bog-standard Harsh Noise rig consisting predominantly of line level effects. I guess a lot of the outcome depends on the user, though. I'm sort of projecting my own lack of inventiveness here.

I see. I was mostly considering it as a way to spice up my one man Harsh Noisecore project 7 Grand Dead's eventual live performances. I was planning to run two contact mics to the drums (standing kit, one snare and a crash cymbal), running them into the mixer and feeding them to my Death Metal, EQ pedal, and maybe an octaver for some extra frequencies. I figured adding some mixer feedback would create more sonic interest, since you can't easily move the mics around to fuck with the feedback that way. Then I could just play with the mixer to generate some skree and squall between blasts as well as add some more screwed-up jagged textures to the blasting.

[crochambeau]

You can control how much prominence the feedback loop imparts through use of the level control (I'm assuming the loop is completed through the FX send). Additional control over the loop can be derived through use of compression.

Mixers are great tools, highly recommended.

[The Mysterious Creep]

Using a mixer's aux send/return for feedback and then feeding an external source into one of the channel strips on the same mixer can definitely cause some sort of audible inter-modulation (forgive my dubious, cobbled-together-best-guesses vocabulary), though the levels for each signal will probably need to be amplified/attenuated properly for interesting results.

In my experience, however it's accomplished, injecting an external source into a feedback loop, such that it becomes a part of the feedback signal that is essentially processing its own sound in combination with the feedback, yields somewhat predictable results of a boring, relatively unmolested mixture of each signal, depending on how much "activity" there is inside the actual feedback loop, perhaps with some irregular phasing. That, or octave-doubling/"grumbling" effects added to the instrument and/or subtly clangorous modulation. The purer/more consistent the tones, the more apparent the later tends to be. Of course, a lot of these subtleties get smothered in all of the distortion and hiss inherent in the bog-standard Harsh Noise rig consisting predominantly of line level effects. I guess a lot of the outcome depends on the user, though. I'm sort of projecting my own lack of inventiveness here.

Depressingly, I've found this is pretty much what happened now that I've acquired a mixer.

[¾ dead]

FWIW, a mixer is still a very good tool to have, as Croch. said. And it is worthwhile to experiment with effects like compression, gates, equalizers and subharmonic generators to see what happens while tweaking the levels and pan positions. These kinds of effects can do a lot to allow you to impose new routines onto an otherwise relatively chaotic/uncooperative system (i.e., the bog-standard, no-frills aux. send FB modulated by input signal setup), which is a needlessly esoteric way to word things, but I can't think of another way to say it right now.

I recommend looking into some cheap rackmount compressor/expanders, EQ's, sub generators or multi fx which include them, etc. to place in your aux. loop. But my answer has always been to just throw more money at the problem, and look where it's gotten me...

[NoiseWiki]

One of the best and accidental applications of mixer feedback happened at the Dead Audio fest I played years ago. I was using a digitech time machine with a really long delay and the room ambience and various shouts from the audiences got mixed into the feedback but were very ghostly.

The problem with online mixer feedback imo is that it's too short and just becomes a tone .. but if you add a delay its starts to become more interesting.

[The Mysterious Creep]

I do have a number of delays (and by a number, I mean two), I should get those in the loops.

[NoiseWiki]

I do have a number of delays (and by a number, I mean two), I should get those in the loops.

I might as well throw in a bit of noise lore/beef .. there was some sort of dispute between Stimbox and Sickness where Sickness challenged Stimbox to a noise duel of sorts where no delay would be used.. I guess Sickness thought using a delay was too easy or something. You can get a pretty wide range of sounds and chop using a delay .. especially a sampling delay like the Digitech Timemachine by cranking the delay time and doing insert edits. I think Sickness's technique for getting chop was using momentary mute switches between different effect chains. One of the disadvantages of that I suppose is you can get caught with your ass hanging in the breeze with no sound which happened at one of his shows I was at. With a sampling delay you could put it into loop mode until you figure out the problem.

Also Stimbox's sound was termed laser noise which apparently resulted in this album cover.

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[crochambeau]

Unless I am mistaken, your mixer is a Pladask Matrise, correct?

With enough cable on hand, you can set up multiple loops/paths that *do not* interconnect, so long as the linking volume control is turned all the way down.

Through attentive use of that volume control (or vertical output channel, however you like to set things up) you can balance the two/three "structures" of sound in a way that one does not over blow another.

For root feedback/"no input" control, I will reiterate the use of compression is incredible if you want subtractive control. Fiddling with attack, release, threshold, and ratio points can be powerful. Avoid one knob tone jobs unless you like what it does, some super knobby low end compressor that "audio guys" like to shit on is perfect. I adopted the Alesis 3630 as tool of choice (when they were almost universally available for something like $25 used - DO NOT PAY UP FOR ONE). Of course, there are others, they are usually racks, which opens up another can of worms..

(apologies)