HNW question

[JLIAT]

I seem to think you maintain everything has meaning

I can neither confirm nor deny this.

Get back to me when you can.

[RUBBISH]

Personally I don't like subgenrefying Noise.
Noise is noise.

[NoiseWiki]

I seem to think you maintain everything has meaning

I can neither confirm nor deny this.

Get back to me when you can.

Only in the sense that there can be meaning for things other than words. If somebody commits the action of pressing a button on a noise maker to make noise then noise as a concept can have meaning. If you listen to noise that is an action and then you can think about that noise conceptually and there is meaning.

Does art have to mean the same thing to everyone in order to be considered communication? I think not.

Language is flawed. Far from perfect and very inaccurate.

[JLIAT]

I can neither confirm nor deny this.

Get back to me when you can.

Only in the sense that there can be meaning for things other than words. If somebody commits the action of pressing a button on a noise maker to make noise then noise as a concept can have meaning. If you listen to noise that is an action and then you can think about that noise conceptually and there is meaning.

Absolutely agree with this "can".

Does art have to mean the same thing to everyone in order to be considered communication? I think not.

OMG - in agreement again!

Language is flawed. Far from perfect and very inaccurate.

Yes, again! So like if there is a word there must be a thing it denotes, but must there?

Just to resume normal service

On Truth and Lies in a Non-moral Sense, by Nietzsche,

"Every word instantly becomes a concept precisely insofar as it is not supposed to serve as a reminder of the unique and entirely individual original experience to which it owes its origin.."

[RUBBISH]

"Every word instantly becomes a concept precisely insofar as it is not supposed to serve as a reminder of the unique and entirely individual original experience to which it owes its origin.."

So like in Jewish culture especially the mystical part...naming something makes that something what you name it.

Example I read...in the Warsaw ghetto during ww2 this person told another to get In the bomb shelter and the other person says...thats just a table...and the reply was...no when we are under it its a bomb shelter.

Or naming after the fact like the difference of a hammer being a tool or a weapon depending on how you use it.

[NoiseWiki]

Only in the sense that there can be meaning for things other than words. If somebody commits the action of pressing a button on a noise maker to make noise then noise as a concept can have meaning. If you listen to noise that is an action and then you can think about that noise conceptually and there is meaning.

Absolutely agree with this "can".

Does art have to mean the same thing to everyone in order to be considered communication? I think not.

OMG - in agreement again!

I think the sticking point is when one person says something has no meaning but for others it does.

Vomir says "no ideas, no change, no development, no entertainment, no remorse" .. note he doesn't say no meaning and even if he did his statement gives HNW meaning.. when you hear HNW.. any HNW and anything that sounds like HNW will have that statement as a framework for meaning.

When you hear something that sounds like HNW and everybody else thinks it's just some noise..

Viewed 1772 times

[JLIAT]

I think the sticking point is when one person says something has no meaning but for others it does.

I have to unfortunately disagree here, the sticking point seems to be you and certainly cultofthesunmachine say there can be no such thing as a meaningless thing. My point is sure noise can have meaning, but also it can have none. Noise can fail to communicate. Hence the 'What the fuck is that'. If you want to say there can be no such thing as meaninglessness, or that meaning cant be lost, again fine, but i'd disagree.

Vomir says "no ideas, no change, no development, no entertainment, no remorse" .. note he doesn't say no meaning

He doesn't need to. "No change" is the kicker. You cant have a signal which can carry information without a minimum of two states. Good ole Binary. Or as the silver fox said, language is the play of differences.

and even if he did his statement gives HNW meaning.. when you hear HNW.. any HNW and anything that sounds like HNW will have that statement as a framework for meaning.

Sure his statement has meaning, its English or French. I can without worry point to something and say "its meaningless", the statement "its meaningless" has meaning, the signified in my case does not. I think the universe is meaningless, as are lots of stuff. I think its for those who say it has a meaning its for them to say just what it is. As you said - language isn't precise, so here meaning means that it signifies a signified. "the act of conveying meanings from one entity or group to another through the use of mutually understood signs, symbols, and semiotic rules."

When you hear something that sounds like HNW and everybody else thinks it's just some noise..

I'm not sure if you can have "just some noise" surely for you it is always more than 'just' - its "conveying meanings from one entity or group to another through the use of mutually understood signs, symbols, and semiotic rules."

[NoiseWiki]

I have to unfortunately disagree here, the sticking point seems to be you and certainly cultofthesunmachine say there can be no such thing as a meaningless thing.

I don't recall saying that specifically.

My point is sure noise can have meaning, but also it can have none. Noise can fail to communicate. Hence the 'What the fuck is that'. If you want to say there can be no such thing as meaninglessness, or that meaning cant be lost, again fine, but i'd disagree.

Unintentional noise may be meaningless.. well unless you are a technician and your job depends on fixing it and then the noise means a lot to you.

He doesn't need to. "No change" is the kicker. You cant have a signal which can carry information without a minimum of two states. Good ole Binary. Or as the silver fox said, language is the play of differences.

Well he and you apparently don't understand what noise is.. it's not a static voltage.. it's rapidly changing. Also obviously a signal does not have to be binary to carry information. You're really blowing it on this argument.

[cultofthesunmachine]

the sticking point seems to be you and certainly cultofthesunmachine say there can be no such thing as a meaningless thing. My point is sure noise can have meaning, but also it can have none.

wrong, no noise can be meaningless, certainly not noises that are packaged as "noise"

Noise can fail to communicate.

this is correct, but failure to comprehend is not lack of meaning

I think the universe is meaningless, as are lots of stuff.

that is your opinion

I think its for those who say it has a meaning its for them to say just what it is.

insulting and naive, understanding is only gained through experience, if you do not look for meaning you will not find any

[RUBBISH]

Nothing isnt actually nothing because it is named. Naming it makes it something.

No meaning means no context and no way to understand or even know about whatever the subject is and if its so out of normal expected context its possible you wont be able to experience it.

Like lovecraftian monsters that are beyond human concepts so much so that just seeing them can drive you insane or kill you by shock...

Or like in the movie beetlejuice...the living won't see the dead...they can if they want but they don't

Or the unverified story of anthropologists showing a remote tribe a photo of a human face but since the tribe has no conception of representational art like a photo or even drawing of a human face (cultural doesnt allow for making human representations except for relifious magical purposes..maybe)they don't see the face on the photo

Even things that are named aren't always knowable...the void..death