HNW question

[NoiseWiki]

I think in the case of Vomir the statements and performance however makes more sense in a explanation that accepts his statements. And builds on them. His negative refusals, chime with elements of Minimalism. The denial in his case of the tropes of 'music'. Which at the start of this I mentioned, as in duration being unimportant. (That there is duration not withstanding). As others have said, the need even to hear some noise works. I cited Hegarty, and TNB. I'm sure there are others.

Lol.. yeah it makes more "sense" that you need all this to understand the "meaning" of the work. If it were truly "meaningless" you would not do anything to explain it because there would be nothing to explain. Now.. when one encounters a HNW and somebody asks what it is you know what it is and what the meaning of it is.. the meaning is "meaninglessness".

GEORGE: So, what's happening with the TV show? You come up with anything?

JERRY: No, nothing.

GEORGE: Why don't they have salsa on the table?

JERRY: What do you need salsa for?

GEORGE: Salsa is now the number one condiment in America.

JERRY: You know why? Because people like to say "salsa." "Excuse me, do
you have salsa?" "We need more salsa." "Where is the salsa? No salsa?"

GEORGE: You know it must be impossible for a Spanish person to order
seltzer and not get salsa. (Angry) "I wanted seltzer, not salsa."

JERRY: "Don't you know the difference between seltzer and salsa?? You
have the seltezer after the salsa!"

GEORGE: See, this should be a show. This is the show.

JERRY: What?

GEORGE: This. Just talking.

JERRY: (dismissing) Yeah, right.

GEORGE: I'm really serious. I think that's a good idea.

JERRY: Just talking? Well what's the show about?

GEORGE: It's about nothing.

JERRY: No story?

GEORGE: No forget the story.

JERRY: You've got to have a story.

GEORGE: Who says you gotta have a story? Remember when we were waiting for,
for that table in that Chinese restaurant that time? That could be a TV
show.

JERRY: And who is on the show? Who are the characters?

GEORGE: I could be a character.

JERRY: You?

GEORGE: Yeah. You could base a character on me.

JERRY: So, on the show, there's a character named George Costanza?

GEORGE: Yeah. There's something wrong with that? I'm a character. People are always saying to me, "You know you're a quite a character."

JERRY: And who else is on the show?

GEORGE: Elaine could be a character. Kramer..

JERRY: Now he's a character. (Pause) So everybody I know is a character on the show.

GEORGE: Right.

JERRY: And it's about nothing?

GEORGE: Absolutely nothing.

JERRY: So you're saying, I go in to NBC, and tell them I got this idea for a show about nothing.

GEORGE: We go into NBC.

JERRY: "We"? Since when are you a writer?

GEORGE: (Scoffs) Writer. We're talking about a sit-com.

JERRY: You want to go with me to NBC?

GEORGE: Yeah. I think we really go something here.

JERRY: What do we got?

GEORGE: An idea.

JERRY: What idea?

GEORGE: An idea for the show.

JERRY: I still don't know what the idea is.

GEORGE: It's about nothing.

JERRY: Right.

GEORGE: Everybody's doing something, we'll do nothing.

JERRY: So, we go into NBC, we tell them we've got an idea for a show about nothing.

GEORGE: Exactly.

JERRY: They say, "What's your show about?" I say, "Nothing."

GEORGE: There you go.

(A moment passes)

JERRY: (Nodding) I think you may have something there.

[JLIAT]

I think in the case of Vomir the statements and performance however makes more sense in a explanation that accepts his statements. And builds on them. His negative refusals, chime with elements of Minimalism. The denial in his case of the tropes of 'music'. Which at the start of this I mentioned, as in duration being unimportant. (That there is duration not withstanding). As others have said, the need even to hear some noise works. I cited Hegarty, and TNB. I'm sure there are others.

Lol.. yeah it makes more "sense" that you need all this to understand the "meaning" of the work.

OK xe2x80x93 just as one does of things like The Fountain or 4' 33xe2x80x9d = not just entertainment...

If it were truly "meaningless" you would not do anything to explain it because there would be nothing to explain.

The world is meaningless xe2x80x93 therfore nothing to explain.

OK xe2x80x93 i'll fax this to the guys a CERN. It will save billions. Or maybe they are looking for GOD? What do you think.

Now.. when one encounters a HNW and somebody asks what it is you know what it is and what the meaning of it is.. the meaning is "meaninglessness".

Existentialism....

xe2x80x9cyou cant have a product without an actionxe2x80x9d - that's you.

And you cant have an action without an actor.

What actor created reality?


So again massive questions, all down to our discussing HNW.

The alternative, you seem reluctant to accept, is that HNW is just entertainment, and so just a matter of taste. So HNW has really provoked some deep thoughts. Maybe its ART. ? Shock!

[NoiseWiki]

OK xe2x80x93 just as one does of things like The Fountain or 4' 33xe2x80x9d = not just entertainment...

Right and it took human actions to create it.. it did not create itself.

The world is meaningless xe2x80x93 therfore nothing to explain.

Yes but if you weren't in the bubble we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. Nothing would have meaning, there'd be no reason to explain anything let alone HNW.

xe2x80x9cyou cant have a product without an actionxe2x80x9d - that's you.

No it's not. I did not say that. HNW releases do not create themselves.

What actor created reality?

Well there are those who might say we, each individual creates there own reality.. and what difference does it make if our perceived existence is meaningless.

So again massive questions, all down to our discussing HNW.

For nothing there certainly seems to be a lot to talk about.

The alternative, you seem reluctant to accept, is that HNW is just entertainment, and so just a matter of taste.

Oh now you are saying entertainment also has no meaning.. you're really kind of a killjoy. lol

So HNW has really provoked some deep thoughts. Maybe its ART. ? Shock!

yes considering you think it's incapable of meaning anything.

[JLIAT]

OK xe2x80x93 just as one does of things like The Fountain or 4' 33xe2x80x9d = not just entertainment...

Right and it took human actions to create it.. it did not create itself.

Duchamp or Cage created nothing material or auditory, and though Vomir created something auditory, it sound was irrelevant.
"No point".

The world is meaningless xe2x80x93 therfore nothing to explain.

Yes but if you weren't in the bubble we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. Nothing would have meaning, there'd be no reason to explain anything let alone HNW.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Whilst you seem to have said human made anything has meaning, and implied other thing too, red roses e.g. my question about everything having means remain unanswered. Though if you think red roses have a meaning I cant see why they should and cucumbers and Jupiter do not also have a meaning for you.

xe2x80x9cyou cant have a product without an actionxe2x80x9d - that's you.

No it's not. I did not say that. HNW releases do not create themselves.

Yes it is - top of page 16! And sure - does anything create itself?

Well there are those who might say we, each individual creates there own reality.. and what difference does it make if our perceived existence is meaningless.

I very much doubt I create the sun I see outside and the trees... what difference does a meaningful or meaningless universe make, to many humans lots.

For nothing there certainly seems to be a lot to talk about.

That's Art for you unlike entertainment.

Oh now you are saying entertainment also has no meaning.. you're really kind of a killjoy. lol

Didn't say that. Entertainers mean to entertain. And once entertained, job done. And its a matter of taste.

yes considering you think it's incapable of meaning anything.

Again the producing something whose content is meaningless - yes.

Anyway lets press on...



What does it mean? What does it represent?

You are right to see the possible terminus of the minimal work of art, such as HNW, as a conclusion that "there would be nothing to explain" your quote.

Here in HNW, and the bricks, is materiality that can if not be 'explained', can be discussed... "Bricks (Anywhere from a few seconds to just a few minutes, usually not more than 5)
Partitions (Anything that's approx. 10-20 minutes)
Walls (Averaging 30 minutes or more. "

"HNW with a tremolo: Harsh noise fence."

So we can talk about the bricks, size, cost.., the HNW sound, pitch, volume length... the glaze on the urinal, the make of piano. But unfortunately all this is, fairly obviously, irrelevant to these works.

So then what are we left with, is there "nothing to explain".

Well here i happen to think you are right. (bet that shocked you - and yes the guys at CERN wasting their time.)

[RUBBISH]

Hahaha...now we have physics experts here.
This just keeps getting better and better.

Please tell me what other scientific research is a waste of time.

[JLIAT]

Hahaha...now we have physics experts here.
This just keeps getting better and better.

Please tell me what other scientific research is a waste of time.

Any that seeks "explanation". (its not physics its metaphysics)

But maybe I should have said wasting *my* time, as its impossible for me to understand.

Adrian seemed to say if something has no meaning there is nothing to understand.
So trying to understand it seems a waste of time.
But maybe things like the Higgs boson does have a meaning and therefore can be understood.
But if it has no meaning, trying to understand it, as above, must be a waste of time?

[RUBBISH]

Hahaha...now we have physics experts here.
This just keeps getting better and better.

Please tell me what other scientific research is a waste of time.

Any that seeks "explanation". (its not physics its metaphysics)

But maybe I should have said wasting *my* time, as its impossible for me to understand.

Metaphysics is something you already said you don't believe in.

I suggest you visit some topics in the MISC section.

[JLIAT]

Hahaha...now we have physics experts here.
This just keeps getting better and better.

Please tell me what other scientific research is a waste of time.

Any that seeks "explanation". (its not physics its metaphysics)

But maybe I should have said wasting *my* time, as its impossible for me to understand.

Metaphysics is something you already said you don't believe in.

Did I say that. I think metaphysics attempts to deal with foundational reality.
To which I think is beyond my understanding, if it could ever achieve this, which I doubt.

I suggest you visit some topics in the MISC section.

Seem dull compared to this.

[RUBBISH]

That's what I thought...beneath you huh.
That's very telling and its not good in my mind.

Ok continue wanking.
The more material the better.

[JLIAT]

That's what I thought...beneath you huh.

No not beneath me, hell I've been replying to Adrian, i'm not an octopus. I happen to think for me that HNW is interesting - sorry.

Dull for me, does that mean its not interesting for others, of course not! Anyway why no reply to my input re your Nietzsche comments! Huh!

That's very telling and its not good in my mind.

What that people post on topics they are interested in - Amazing!

Ok continue wanking.

That's not a nice thing to say now is it?
So why say it?